I don't think the world is that much different today than it was yesterday. You perspective on it may be different and will continue to evolve over time, but for the most part the world we live in continues much the same as it always has. The problems you speak of is nothing new. Just look on the history of a different industry and you're likely to find much the same.

But, during the early years Jobs was not selling his own crazy ideas, he was selling Woz's. Plus I wouldn't say that Jobs was a non-technical guy as he clearly knew tech, he just accepted his place in that field.

The thing I don't get about your comment is that we see people risking things on non-technical people's ideas every day, so I don't understand your point.

I have to disagree here.Even though my perspective has changed, times have changed too.How?Look around.If you do not see it than I will stop here.

Steve Jobs was a non-technical guy.That's why there were so many debates about tech and non tech guys during these years.He acquired knowledge over time through various sources.He had everything on a plate.And you can be a complete outsider in a company.When you spend so much time in your industry, in your environment, you learn.But you couldn't say he was a programmer or engineer.

Saying that people are risking things on non-tech people's ideas every day is like saying people are driving a car every day.Of course they are.In this world there is a little bit of everything.Rich people, poor people, low jobs, high jobs etc. We are talking about the majority or current situation. And for the moment the situation is just how I described it.

If you think it is not true, post a project on HN as a non-technical guy and ask for someone to help you build your project.I am curious how many would help you.

That is just my personal opinion based on my observations and experiences.

If you do not see that your third paragraph contradicts your first then I cannot help you.

Jobs was involved in numerous projects creating highly popular technical products in several different roles. Now did he dig in to create the circuit boards and code the programs himself? No, he did not. But that's like saying a team lead is not a technical person because he doesn't code himself. To help create technical products from the ground up there has to be some level technical knowledge involved. Maybe your standard of what constitutes technical knowledge is higher than mine or maybe we just think of being technical as different things.

As I said before, your third paragraph agrees with my point. What you are complaining about has been around for quite a while and will most likely will exist for a time to come.

Someone with no technical knowledge asking for help on a project and not getting it does not necessarily lead to your conclusion on the community in general. One could say the same if you have a crazy idea for a new type of house, when you've never built a house before, and no one in the construction industry steps forward to build your house on spec for no money down. That's simply how the world works and has always worked. What you want is the exception to be the rule.

But then again, I'm sure the open source world has several examples of what you say doesn't happen.

I don't see the contradiction but my point is, if we want to see more steves we should improve the relationship between us and them even if we have the hard part of the startup.Which is almost always the case.

But hey, if you choose to be a programmer, you should do it because you really like it not because you make a lot of money. I can work 30h non stop on a project I like even if it's not mine, because I really like to build projects.

I don't want the exception to be the rule.It would be impossible after all.What I want is tech guys to risk more when it comes to non-technical people.

Btw, when you are smart and very talented you don't really need to get that technical.I already wrote about a non-technical guy I've worked with which had no technical background and no experience with startups that was able to build a product from his mind. I was shocked.I mean he didn't even know how to design it in photoshop.He was able to guide us through the building process almost perfectly.Now, of course he was reading a lot about everything but besides that he had no real technical background.

Should I say that guy was technical or non-technical?We probably see things differently.

We should return to our topic subject because we are entering the eternal debate and we will just ruin the topic.

I agree since you keep contradicting yourself.

Well, the other thing to consider about Jobs + Wozniak is that they were young at the time. The young are more apt to take risks -- and they were also friends with mutual interests beyond just computing. Did Jobs tend to use Wozniak? Yes. But Wozniak had to be willing to go along on the ride. Also, being young, they had their parents to still fall back on, whereas if you're older and being asked to take a risk, you have to consider the web of financial and personal obligations that have grown up to ensnare you.

EDIT: Typo killed.

Exactly.Wozniak had to be willing to go along on the ride.And he did it.Did he ever create a scandal or, I don't know, fight for glory with Jobs?No.He was always a humble guy and got the work done.No drama or anything.And he was well repaid.

We have plenty of young talented people in this world.But I already stated the problem in my initial post.